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Rock Singing Success

218 members • Free

13 contributions to Rock Singing Success
How Do We Avoid Pressing When Using Glottal Compression For Grit?
When I was first learning to sing, I acquired bad habit of pressing most of the time when I sing. This came about because my introduction to singing came via tutorials made by a coach who heavily implied that compression always makes a vocalist sound more interesting and that there is no such thing as over compressing. So, I started compressing and compressing hard! To be clear, when I say "compression", I'm talking about glottal compression and hypercompression, which are both about how much force you use to attain vocal cord closure. I took some lessons from a coach and found out that there absolutely is such a thing as compressing too much and I was doing it. My coach said I was "pressing" too much when I sang, even in clean singing. Pressing is really destructive because it involves literally pressing the vocal folds together hard while forcing them open by squeezing air through them. Pressing makes the vocal folds red, irritated and swollen, since you're literally squeezing air through your vocal folds while they're being tightly closed. Problem is, I don't understand the difference between using increased amounts of compression for grit and using pressing while singing. Don't compression (especially hypercompression) and pressing both involve using a lot of force to close the vocal cords while trying to force air through them? I find this the single most confusing thing about creating grit . I'm not asking about the decompresssed style of creating grit. I'm also not asking about the type of compression twang creates by narrowing the vocal tract, I'm ONLY asking about using glottal compression with enough force to create grit - the compression based style of creating grit that singers like Phil Anselmo, Rob Halford, Rob Zombie and Sully Erna use. Since creating grit requires more glottal compression than singing cleanly, how can you compress that hard (especially if using hypercompression) and somehow avoid pressing while you're doing it? It seems to me that "pressing" and "using a lot of glottal compression" are two different terms for the same thing. They both describe using a lot of force to achieve vocal fold closure, so isn't end result of either pressing while singing clean or using glottal compression with a lot of force to create grit, especially if it's hypercompressed (Phil Anselmo, Sully Erna, M. Shadows) is still going to be red, irritated, swollen vocal folds from trying to force air through tightly closed vocal cords and maybe even choking off the airflow and with it, the note you're trying to sing.
1 like • 4h
Wow, this was worth the wait! I really think it was a matter of confusion that came from different teachers using different terms for the same thing. When I say I developed a bad habit of "pressing", I was doing something like what you do at 9:30 in the video and earlier in the video as well, but that sound you make at 9:30 is as good an example of it as any and it's right after you say: "If I pull into that too much it's gonna start compressing (aehh) then I have to get lighter." My thing about this that led to so much confusion on my part is that when I began trying to learn to sing with grit, I thought that compressing until you get that sound at 9:30 into the video was all that it was supposed to take and you could sing with grit that way. There was no element of constriction. The tutorials I first saw on YT by CL somehow gave me the idea that compression with good breath support was all it took to create grit and that constriction was described in a way that I didn't understand. Maybe he describes it like "high engagement constriction" because to him, it feels like constriction is happening high in thee throat instead of at the hyoid. Since I didn't understand constriction well, I think I got the idea that constriction was optional for creating grit and that you could sing with grit with just as long as you had good breath support and hard compression. As you can imagine, it didn't work and left me confused. So, when you say: ""If I pull into that too much it's gonna start compressing (aehh) then I have to get lighter", I wasn't getting lighter. I was getting tighter. There was so much tension that I don't think it allowed the process of singing with grit to take place...and if I was doing any constriction at all, it was minimal and happening without me knowing where I should be constricting. When you're told things like "this is a high constriction engagement" you think constriction takes place in the upper throat - not at the hyoid. Later on I found your videos but that habit of compressing so hard that things were tight took a while to get rid of. I thought grit required more tension than it does. I was more or less trying to squeeze my way into creating grit. Basically, it was: Try to sing while holding back air until it creates grit. If constriction was happening it was happening by accident.
Can You Get Grit Without Using A Hyoid Pull?
I've learned a lot about the hyoid pull in this community and it definitely works, but I am kind of getting the idea that it is impossible to create distortion without a hyoid pull when actually, you are the first coach I've seen mention a hyoid pull. I read Raise Your Voice by Jamie Vendera. I saw no mention of a hyoid pull or anything similar in the book. Yet other coaches get their grit with twang instead, such as CVT certified coach Mateus Sibila, who demonstrates how to create grit only using twang in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAugpkANBOc Instead of using a hyoid pull, he uses twang to create grit for singing. The thing I find appealing about this is that he says that in addition to creating grit, twang helps get rid of unwanted breathiness from our voice for singing or screaming. He elaborates: "Twang is created by narrowing the epiglottic funnel which amplifies and compresses the sound. Twang also helps to set the position of our throat, larynx, palate and tongue for gettingĀ a healthy distortion to scream and sing with rasp. Examples of bands are Guns N' Roses, Alice In Chains, Godsmack and many others including Metallica." Finally, Aliki Katriou says that Kargyraa is her favorite way to create false fold distortion, since unlike the other two ways, it is direct - not passive. She likes that the main pro of Kargyraa is it gives you the most muscular control and says the main downside to it is the pitch range you're able to achieve with it.
0 likes • 10d
@Draven Grey "First, to answer you directly about this video... What he's doing in the video relates directly to what I often describe as a more compressed, "in the mouth" distortion, which has more more twangy, forward placement, resulting in harsher, grittier sounds" - So is he using a hyoid pull (either without saying it or without knowing it) or does that particular grit he's creating not require a hyoid pull? I found this part especially helpful: "You can also use that hyoid pull while in a fry-dominant position in order to amplify more the lower, false-cord harmonics." - It makes me think that in general, when listening to someone, the amount if sub- harmonics you hear (how rumbly it gets) helps give an idea of how much the arytenoids are involved. I think I hear a lot of hyoid pull in Rob. Halford's introduction to songs on stage on the LIve Vengeance '82 concert like when he says this next song is "DEsert Plans" at 16 seconds into this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Es9LAHSqmc&list=RD1Es9LAHSqmc&start_radio=1 Or, throughout much of spoken intro to The Sinner from the same concert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI1ZcIbhsmk&list=RDSI1ZcIbhsmk&start_radio=1 or at 55 seconds into The Sinner when he sings "the devil rides beside him." In general, Halford has (or had) a more rumbly tone to his grit than I hear from most other singers with a gritty style. I'm guessing he found a way to get his arytenoids more involved than most of his contemporaries who usually had smoother, less rumbly grit. This is a lot to take in. I'll have to read it several times, but as long as I look up a few terms I don't know yet like "velum" and "aryepiglottic sphincter control", I think I'll understand it. If it helped give you the idea to write a book, great! I realize for copyright reasons, you can't add examples of well known metal vocalists as an audio component to the book, but to since hearing examples of techniques does help make them more concrete, you might consider saying a particular combination of acoustics, constriction and compression result in what you hear in a the first verse of a Pantera song or the chorus to a Judas Priest song , etc.
0 likes • 7d
@Draven Grey That sounds great! And I'm glad I'm on the right track with what I'm hearing in Halford's voice.
Can't unlock mixed voice
Hi, I'm new here so I'm still a bit shy. I need a lot of help with mixed voice because I cannot seem to figure it out even though I'm spending all of my patience and energy behind it. Is there any vocal teacher/coach who can come on a call for just 15 mins and teach me some of the things without any money please? I cannot pay even a single dollar behind this as I am too young and I really just need some guidance and advice for it. I've tried youtube and taking advice from random people online but it doesn't really work unless there's someone pinpointing my mistakes and telling me how to correct them. Learning by myself has also created some confusions that I need to get rid of immediately. Somebody help please šŸ™šŸ»šŸ™šŸ»
1 like • 13d
@Shajeen Islam How long have has it been since you started learning to sing?
1 like • 13d
@Shajeen Islam 4 months is not a long time. Don't feel bad that you haven't learned mixed voice in four months. It could take a few more months but as long as you continue trying, I believe you'll get it. One idea you. ight want to try is instead if having one long practice session , have two or three shorter practice sessions in a day. Even when we step away from actively trying to learn, subconsciously our brains are still trying to figure out the solution, so when we come back to it, it often seems easier. For example, if you're a guitar player and trying to figure out how to play a guitar solo but you can't quite figure out what notes are being played in a fast section of the solo, when you come back the next day to try it again, it often seems easier than it did the day before.
Is This Technique Safe?
I'm asking because I really like the sound that this guy is getting on the Sam Carter style pitched scream he does and he explains how he does it. I did't know it was possible to compress such a high note but it certainly sounds powerful and aggressive! By the way he has a web site and on it he states: "CAUTION: The most common mistake is pressing the vocal folds together and SQUEEZING air through. This sounds either like a very high and weak scream or like a wheezing or whistling sound and feels uncomfortable. If you catch yourself doing this STOP. Pressing the vocal folds together and squeezing air through is very stressful for your vocal folds." This came as news to me because I thought compression was pressing the vocal folds together but according to him, compression is this: "Compression in vocal technique refers to creating pressure inside the upper body. Our body has a mechanism for creating high pressure and stability inside our upper body. We use this when creating great core stability for lifting heavy objects, bracing ourselves for an impact, throwing up, holding back air at any cost, or when we defecate. When we stiffen our abdominals and maybe even pull them inwards slightly something special happens inside our larynx. Our vestibular folds close over the vocal folds and as such change how the vocal folds behave and how much the vestibular folds vibrate." https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AFy1EFjpbzY
1 like • 17d
@Draven Grey Thank you for being so thorough! One of the reasons I wanted to ask you about this guy is he says stuff I've never heard suggestedĀ before like "Get louderĀ to activate the falseĀ folds" but the results he gets...it sounds amazing! The thing that especially intrigued me is the tremendous sub harmonics he's getting. It sounds so thick even on the C#5! As for the cough, I didn't even do it. Soe coaches suggest doing a "polite clearing of the. throat" to activate false folds or to activate arytenoid rattle. If I recall I think Aliki Katriou is one of them. She did some amazing tutorials on all the different types of distortion and what they sound like. BTW< if you ever wanted to have her on your podcast, that would be really cool! Anyway, I intuitively knew that what he was doing with the "cough stop"was a way of achieving the same effect as when a weightlifter, right before a heavy lift goes; "HEH" and cuts off his air.I think it's called the Valsalva maneuver and is used to stabilize our bodies but it also does a remarkable job of covering the true folds with the false folds. I gather that you're against this amount of subglottal pressure or the Valsalva maneuver method for grit? You didn't come right out and say it, but it seemed implied. May I ask why? To me it seems an effective way to get the false folds to cover the true folds so that a wide variety of amounts of grit can be created. In fact, on the Mick Jagger video, you recommended holding back air in a similar way to the Valsalva maneuver, unless I misunderstood. This part was really a revelationĀ to me: "The important part was the arytenoid constriction in the false cords that I find is better found through "an airy /uh/"—which is technically both the constriction and a glottal closure like George McFly's laugh in Back to the Future. The closure he's describing is more safely found by taking a breath, starting to exhale, and very quickly stopping it. Then, release it, giving you that "airy /uh/" I mentioned."
1 like • 15d
@Draven Grey This was great! I realize now that the hyoid pull is more gentle than I thought. This whole video really helps!
Teachers Teach and Reactors React
I saw some bald-headed guy who claims to be able to teach how to sing, tell his audience it had been too long since he had reacted to some Sleep Token. You can have a high level of respect for someone or a low level of respect. Is it possible to have a negative level ofrespect for someone? Every "reactor" is a wannabe actor. Some are more cringe than others but one thing's for sure: None of them ever went to acting school. "Understatement? No, I don't do that. I merely put in the song that the almighty algorithm told me would get me the most views and then I pretend to have multiple orgasms while listening to their song that I have never heard before...whether I like it or not. How do yo do that? I copy Meg Ryan's scene in "When Harry Met Sally" You're a fraud. You know that, don't you? "Yes, and proud of it!!!! My first time reactions convince the more needy of my followers that they have excellent taste in music...and so do I"! If you have a vocal coach who does reactions, ask: "Are you certified to be a vocal coach"? If they say yes, then ask: "Do you have any diplomas from acting schools"? When they inevitably answer no, then ask them, how about sticking to to the thing in which they actually have some expertise? Just a thought!
0 likes • 19d
@Draven Grey It is great marketing but the thing that gets me is the over the top acting where every song is reacted to as if it's one of the best things the reactor has ever heard. The way some react, it really is kind if like Meg Ryan's scene in When harry Met Sally where she shows that it is possible to convincingly "fake an O".
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Kenny Kendall
3
22points to level up
@kenny-kendall-9359
I love classic rock and metal. A couple years ago I started learning to play guitar, but then I decided what truly excited me was being a vocalist.

Active 4h ago
Joined Dec 25, 2025
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