Oct 19 • General discussion
In the World vs. Of the World: When Ministry Models Start to Feel Like Markets
SI’m wrestling with how some modern ministry methods—especially the “church-growth/management” era—may have discipled us to think like consumers more than covenant people. My aim isn’t to judge leaders or movements, but to invite careful discernment.
What raised my question
I’m familiar with the influence of Peter Drucker (management theory) on parts of evangelical strategy in the 80s–2000s and how this intersected with packaged spiritual programs (workbooks, small-group kits, campaign “funnels”). Helpful tools? Often, yes. But the form can also shape the faith:
- Churches reframed as delivery systems for “life change,” measured by engagement metrics and brand reach.
- Devotional content packaged for scale felt, at times, like personal development plans inside a consumer system.
- Over time, relevance (market fit) can look like faithfulness, even when the Bible calls us to be distinctly other.
I’m also asking whether certain theologies—e.g., some strands of Dispensationalism—accidentally aligned with market logics (individualized, epochal, event-driven) in ways that made them commercially advantageous (publishing, conferences, media). I’m not saying they were created as profit models; I’m saying the symbiosis deserves wise scrutiny.
Not a witch hunt. This is a plumb-line question: are our methods forming people into disciples or consumers?
The biblical tension
Jesus prays we would be in the world yet not of it (John 17:15–18).The Church is “a pillar and buttress of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15), not a brand that pivots with demand. Wisdom from above is “pure, peaceable, gentle…” (James 3:17). Our means should match our message.
A gentle diagnostic (for any church, study, or program)
Ask these, not to accuse, but to align:
- Ends & means: Would this still “work” if it produced repentance and holiness but fewer “engagement metrics”?
- Authority: Does Scripture govern the model, or does the model manage Scripture (selected texts, clipped context)?
- Formation: Are people becoming self-denying disciples (Luke 9:23) or repeat customers?
- Community: Is this growing a covenant body or just managing a crowd?
- Transparency: Are money, metrics, and decisions open to the flock, or just the executive circle?
- Sabbath & slowness: Does the model allow prayer, patience, and pastoral presence, or only pace and production?
You might question on what basis I question things, or my own inventory (history of reading). Remember I eat fish, spit out bones, with the Bible as my authority. Here are just a few of my ingested resources that framed my thoughts.
On church/management & marketing :
- The Purpose Driven Church — Rick Warren
- Life Together — Dietrich Bonhoeffer (covenant community)
- Working the Angles — Eugene Peterson (prayer/Scripture/pastoral presence)
- Foolishness to the Greeks — Lesslie Newbigin (culture & gospel)
- Dining with the Devil — Os Guinness (seeker models & market pressures)
On Dispensationalism (for/against/nuance):
- Dispensationalism — Charles Ryrie (classic defense)
- Progressive Dispensationalism — Blaising & Bock (nuance)
- The New Testament and the People of God — N.T. Wright (broader biblical-theology frame)
(These aren’t endorsements—just a table where multiple voices can be heard.)
Personally, overtime I wanted to better understand Church History which began around 32AD and explored councils, reformation, restoration, revival, and movements. My AuDHD normally would want to assign a base knowledge of such things (expanded to include Willowcreek, Bethel, Popes of the South, Azusa, Jesus Culture, Hillsong, NAR, SBC, etc) either through being taught or self-discovery. I have shifted my own presuppositions when applying to others and merely allowing communication to reveal understanding.
An invitation for this community
I’m not here to throw stones at names or movements—I’m here to guard my own house and serve the Body. If you’ve got resources that helped you keep your methods submitted to Scripture, share them. If you’ve been formed by workbook campaigns, small-group kits, or prophecy media, what fruit did it produce long-term?
House rule for this thread: no leader-bashing, no gossip. Bring Scripture, lived fruit, and honest questions. If you want prayer, ask.
My plumb line: “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord—by the Lord of Scripture.” If a method makes us more faithful to Jesus and His Word, praise God. If it makes us sleeker consumers, let’s gently repent and realign.
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In the World vs. Of the World: When Ministry Models Start to Feel Like Markets
