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Owned by Draven

Rock Singing Success

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#1 place for rock and metal singers. Free resources, community, and programs for your rock singing career. 🎤

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362 contributions to Rock Singing Success
👋 Introduce yourself right here!
This is the introductions thread. Say hi, tell us where you’re from and what you’re all about! In your introduction, answer these 3 questions: ➡️ What is your current music project and vision? ➡️ What moment made you want to pursue being a rock singer? ➡️ What's the main thing holding you back? We can’t wait to meet you!
👋 Introduce yourself right here!
0 likes • 22d
@Ajay S Welcome! Tell us a little more about the genres you're into, your goals, and your struggles.
0 likes • 4d
@Lisa-Marie Lewis Welcome! Tell us a little more about yourself as a singer.
Happy 4th / Weekend!
Happy 4th, 250th, Independence Day, Treason Day, weekend, and family day. Whichever way you spin it, I hope it's a good one. I just finished checking my mixes before heading out grab Ender and go spend time with close friends, my second family (Yeah...I don't really wear my hat around the house unless I'm about to leave; I'm not a savage!). I have more mixing late tonight and early tomorrow, before a good day of vocal lessons. I miss being on here as much as I want to be. I have thoughts! I have plans! This is my last month of craziness before I have full control over my business again and the almost year-long fight to simply survive is over. Not all of you know what I'm referring to, but quite a few of you do. I often see this US holiday as a turning point for the year. This year, at least this July, it's a VERY big turning point for me. Everything after July will be about rebuilding and growing rather than surviving. I"m grateful you're all a part of that. When you get some down time, perhaps after the fireworks, I would love to hear about whaat you've been up to this weekend. Anything restful, new, refreshed, or driving you forward? Until then, have a great weekend!
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Happy 4th / Weekend!
Could We Have A Grit Technique Critique?
It seems like it's been awhile since we did one of these, where you identify various grit techniques you hear. This is Judas Priest live from 1982. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9PjOhz3FSM At only three seconds in, Rob Halford says: "Hey Memphis"! - Is this motorboat grit? I'm not sure because I know Metallica is sort of the quintessential example of motorboat grit, but here I'm hearing the subharmonics emphasized more than I ever do in Hetfield's vocals. The only time Hetfeild came even close was maybe on ...And Justice For All and he blew put his voice. soon after. Meanwhiule, Halford is going strong at 74 years old! Clearly Halford's using a different, healthier technique than Hetfield was using on ...And Justice. Throughout the spoken intro, what is the grit technique, or grit techniques Halford is using? The spoken intro gets much grittier at 24 seconds into it when he says "The Metal Gods"! Is that Hardcore Bark? I associate Upper Grunt more like what Mick Jagger does on Start Me Up (that was a great critique/explanation you did on that)! If he isn't using Hardcore Bark when he says "The Metal Gods" and it actually is Upper Grunt, what makes Halford's Upper Grunt so much more distorted than Jagger's? MY FAVORITE QUESTION IS COMING UP - PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION IN THE PARAGRAPH BELOW : ) The singing starts at 47 seconds with: "We'd taken too much for granted"- Again, I can't tell if thjis is Upper Grunt of Harcore bark. Is there some sure telltale sing that it is one or the othjer, or is possible for a singer to straddle the line between Upper Grunt and Hardcore Bark? If you only answer one thing I really hope you answered what I asked in the above paragraph. At 52 seconds he sings "And all the time it had GROWN" - I put "grown" in caps because he gets a different,. more gurgly, more distorted sound on that word. How does he get that effect? It sounds so cool! Afterwards, for at least the next minute or so, it sounds like Upper Grunt - there is still nothing as gurgly sounding or as filthily distorted as on "GROWN" at 52 seconds.
2 likes • 20d
I know this isn't definitive answer or grit types line by line that you're looking for, but I want to give you a more complete understanding rather than trying to strictly define what you're hearing with a particular name. It's all a spectrum. The names I gave them in my course were simply to define the sound and physical feel for commonly heard grit used along that compression and pitch spectrum. Compressed vs uncompressed is a much better way to think of distortion, with how much compression (or lack thereof) possible relying heavily on the pitch under it. When analyzing what's being done, the first thing to look for is the pitches being used in relation to the bridges. The typical vocal bridges (highest pitch until a break or choking) are around these pitches: 1. Men — E4, A4, C#5-E5 2. Women — A4, C#5-E5 Lower pitched grit tends to be more compressed to make up for the looser vocal cords and lower chest-voice formant (formant = resonance and pressure in the vocal tract). Higher pitched grit tends to be more uncompressed to make up for the tighter/stretched vocal cords and higher, lifted and back, head-voice formant. However, you have some leeway with this spectrum, just like the first bridge isn't a hard stop for clean singing chest vs head (you can pull chest-voice higher with thicker TA muscles and pull head-voice lower without engaging the TA muscles), you can also compress grit above the first bridge and uncompress grit below the first bridge. That's where things get much more complicated to answer... UNCOMPRESSED LOWS Being more uncompressed the lower you go below the first bridge introduces a lot of air and chaos that can be difficult to control without sounding weird. Tom Waits is a famous example of someone who does uncompressed grit below his first bridge. COMPRESSED MIDS Getting very harsh sounding grit just above the first bridge requires lighter throttle so that it doesn't grind. Hetfield hurt his voice by staying loud and compressed up high, including moving towards his second bridge where it wants to uncompress naturally. Doing that is too taxing on the voice.
1 like • 16d
@Kenny Kendall "Decompressed" or "uncompressed" in context of distortion is really just saying that you're allowing air to bleed through the glottis, not having enough force applied to closure to stop extra air from passing through. This is in contrast to "compressed" where the amount of force applied to closure requires the air be pushed through the glottis. "Grinding" is simply describing soft tissue grinding together. This is almost always caused by pushing too much throttle rather than balancing compression and air support. More compressed distortion often requires you back off in throttle in order to not grind any tissue together harshly. Keeping thing lighter and looser allows vibration rather than the wear and tear of doing so louder and more stiff. While what the examples you gave are correct, I would add that it's primarily the amount of air pressure or throttle that causes grinding issues. You can be VERY compressed and not grind as long as the throttle is light enough. Granted, that doesn't mean it will sound good. Haha! One last thing I want to address is where you said "Compression causes air to 'spray out intensely like if you held your thumb over a garden hose.'" This analogy applies specifically to twang compression because of the narrowing of the vocal tract (hose) by the epiglottis (thumb). To compress the glottis directly means closing off or stopping the flow and putting all of that pressure directly on what is stopping the flow. This causes a sputter, not increased flow. In distortion, that sputter is balanced and controlled to create vocal fry, and the narrowing happens by dampening the larynx which engages the false cords more. This distinction is one of the main reasons I like to separate compression and constriction when talking about distortion—keeping compression as talking about the glottis, and keeping constriction (albeit a type of compression) as talking about the narrowing and shaping of the arytenoids, lowering the larynx, and narrowing the false fold area of the vocal tract. Compression can be primarily felt on top of the throat and towards the back; and further assisted by over-crying, which thins the glottis, relaxes the larynx, opens the vocal tract, and adds /uh/ and /aw/ overtones to the voice. Constriction can be primarily felt at the front of the throat around the hyoid, and is more focused on narrowing or vocal tract lengthening than actual closure.
🎧 How Recording Makes You a Better Singer
Podcast Chats are where we keep the conversation going and dive deeper into the topics of our podcast episodes with you! ▶️ You can 𝘄𝗮𝘁𝗰𝗵 this episode below or find it directly on Youtube. 🎧 You can find this episode on our website or by searching for Rock Singing Success on your favorite podcast app! ➡️ 𝗪𝗲 𝘄𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗹𝗼𝘃𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗸𝗻𝗼𝘄 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗼𝘂𝗴𝗵𝘁𝘀, 𝗾𝘂𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀 𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗮𝗸𝗲𝗮𝘄𝗮𝘆𝘀 𝗶𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁𝘀! Even if you don’t plan on producing your music, understanding the basics of recording and mixing is essential to becoming a better singer and musician. From finding the right microphone to improving your sound with EQ, compression, and more, join me as we explore practical production tips to elevate your vocal performance and take your recording to the next level. In this episode: - How basic production skills make you a better singer and musician - The insane value of understanding recording and mixing - How to find the RIGHT microphone for you, and why it’s incredibly important - Affordable and effective soundproofing - The benefit of using reference tracks for mixing - How to use EQ and compression to enhance your vocals - Why mastering is important - Getting a full and polished sound - The importance of recording for improving your voice - You don’t hear what you think you hear: why taking breaks during mixing is essential - Essential strategies to help your vocals stand out in the mix SUBSCRIBE ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCAST PLATFORM: Amazon Music/Audible Apple Deezer iHeartRadio Pandora Spotify
1 like • Feb '25
@Phillip Vautour The Origin is a great, general, and forgiving mic. The main problem with mics is that it's not one size fits all. Before spending a lot on a mic, it can really help to book a couple of hours at a studio with a lot of mics (they'll record multiple at the same time) and get their opnion on what sounds best for your voice. If you sound great on a $4k to $10k mic, I guaranteee that you'll be able to find a mic in that same family of sound color for much cheaper - sometimes even an exact clone.
1 like • 19d
@Martin Sinclair , @Shajeen Islam : I likely said this in the episode, but it's been a year and a half since then... Recording you voice is definitely putting you under a microscope. Hardly anyone's voice sounds good to us raw. We're used to room spatial acoustics/reflections and psychoacoustics like masking (our brain ignoring certain sounds) and localization (where we perceive the sound coming from). You don't get that with a close mic's diaphragm. Instead, you get it very raw. Combine that with being used to hearing your own voice inside your head, adding a whole different level of harmonics and noise compression that no one else hears and is directly tied with your self-identity, and suddenly this disembodied voice you're hearing in the recording sounds nothing like what you just heard yourself sing. This is why a lot of people remove one ear of their headphones when recording, to "bring the room back" for a more natural, non-distracting sound. It's also why mixing your voice with something as simple as a compressor and a little reverb makes it suddenly sound far more pleasing and natural to us.
AI Protection?
Here's an interesting article on how AI music works and some efforts to reduce the unremunerated exploitation of creators. Thoughts? https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/how-ai-music-works
1 like • 22d
Only 30% of the article is free to read, taking it all the way up to a couple of paragraphs about diffusion. I know some ways to confuse diffusion models, but I honestly find it fascinating how similar we think to these two models. I've seen videos about AGI asking the question of how we define consciousness, and at what point can we distinguish between consciousness and the way we learn and piece together information as human consciousness. I was surprised by the number of apparent crossovers between how AI and humans think. I guess that makes sense, since we think within our own paradigm and have aspired to build neural networks out of machines. In any case, I'm sure that takes this conversation WAY off track given your summary of the article.
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Draven Grey
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@draven-grey-6980
30+ years as a professional recording/performing musician, music career coach, rock and metal voice coach, producer, and recording engineer.

Active 5h ago
Joined Jan 6, 2024
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